Dr. Smiti Nathan

Transcript

Smiti: Welcome to Curiosity Meets the Past, a podcast for curious minds who love learning about the past. My name is Dr. Smiti Nathan, and I’m an archaeologist and your host.

In this episode, I’m speaking with Dr. Sneh Patel, an archaeologist and research analyst whose path back to archaeology has been through public service and volunteering. Sneh, and I have actually attended the same undergraduate university and eventually doctoral program.

So I’ve known Sneh for as long as I’ve been an archaeologist and from my own experience. Brings a deeply service-minded approach to archaeology that’s rooted in care, curiosity, and connection. Sneh is now based in Nashville, Tennessee, which is also where she grew up, and about two years ago she started volunteering locally.

Since then, she’s been able to reconnect with teaching her community and the practice of archaeology itself. Our conversation explores what it looks like to give back in a way that aligns with your skills and values. We get into the ethics of volunteering, how to communicate across ages and backgrounds.

And how to navigate challenging moments, especially when it comes to misconceptions about science. Sneh also shares why representation matters in public facing work and what it has meant to her personally. She starts us off by sharing how she got started volunteering in her community.

Sneh Patel: One of the ways that I started thinking about volunteering was frankly just from my friends group, and I will say honestly, people who are a lot more busy than I was.

Yet we’re taking the time to volunteer and give back to our local community in ways that really connected to their own interests. So for instance, a friend of mine was an avid swimmer in high school, and then had joined a program to help people with intellectual disabilities. You know, learn how to swim, but also keep it up as a practice.

I started thinking like, you know, what are the skills that I have? What are the ways that I can make an impact on my community and help people? And so I looked into a couple opportunities, you know, set out emails, but didn’t really get anything back. I worked for, um, the city of Nashville right now, and I happened to look on our local parks department site and saw a volunteer opportunity called Fossils at the Fort.

And even though archaeologists, we don’t do dinosaurs, we don’t do fossils, it’s like, well, there’s an opportunity there to be able to volunteer. And I went to the orientation and was able to meet two current academics, and it was very cool to be in that space with other female academics and to talk about just the importance of teaching and communicating to the public.

About the things we know. And the program was really great because it went through the materials and it talked to us about not just what we were trying to teach, but what was the aim? You have to remember, this is also 2023. So now this is when most students are coming back from virtual learning into the classroom, but still that need to have hands on.

Tactile learning experiences, they’re still, they’re still really working for it. And so this program was one way that they were able to do that. And, you know, kids could get outside, they could be active, they could run, but the program was also tiered towards, you know, anybody who had an interest about learning about the deep past.

Um, and one of the cool things when we’re learning about the program and the material, they talk about how they have this large amount of resources that’s donated from a site in West Tennessee from a local fort. well, lo and behold, that’s where I grew up as a kid. If you were one of those people who had the playground sets where underneath it, they had like, you know, a lot of small pebbles and rocks, you know, great things to fall down on when you’re a kid.

But ours was filled with these 430 million fossils that were now part of the program. So I used to really annoy my friends sometimes because instead of going to play with them, I would sit in the swing with my head down. Looking for fossils to be able to pick up. That was kind of what really clicked for me that this was one of the opportunities that I could do, and also a way to kind of show me what are some of those ways that I could find opportunities to, again, be teaching, be a public face for archaeology without it necessarily being a full-time job for me, when it comes to thinking about the ethics of volunteering in that space, I think one of the things I had to think about is what was the aim of the program and what were my specialties?

So by archaeologists, by trade, I want to talk about more human impact of the site. What is those connections to modern day? But they actually worked really well with some of the ideas that the program was trying to communicate. But there’s also special ways to talk about things like context, right?

Stratigraphy. Those are all ideas that can play into teaching people that it’s not just what we find, but where we find it, and in some cases how we find it. Those are all things that an archaeologist, paleontologist, an art historian, whoever works in the deep pass, they’re all able to talk those things. So you can talk about those things from your perspective without straying from the true nature of the program in its own.

Smiti: Gotcha. So could you help orient our listeners just a little bit by giving a quick overview of where you’re currently volunteering at?

Sneh Patel: So I’m gonna give an overview as if you don’t have a good concept of US history. During the Civil War, which is in around the 1860s United States, Tennessee left the union to join the Confederate states, but Fort Negley was actually the largest inland stone fortification with the Union Army within Nashville. In the 1860s, it was over 2000 constricted labors and both free blacks constructed the forts there, and they built this fortification. There was some efforts to turn it to a national military park, but eventually failed. In the 1930s. You saw the work’s progress administration do some reconstruction at the fort, but really it wasn’t until the City of Nashville bought the pork and put some effort to reconstructed that.

It became what I would say, significant place of history for us. And so it reopened to the public in around 2004. So one of the things that’s interesting about the site is it sits on a massive limestone outcrop. Which happens to have over 400 million year old fossils there. It’s a good way to get kids to think about fossils and adults that aren’t dinosaurs.

Smiti: Gotcha. That’s really fascinating. And just because I know you personally, I know you travel the world doing archaeology, so it’s an interesting full circle moment that now you are back where you grew up and this site that you’re volunteering at is literally in your backyard. And I was wondering if you could tell us what’s been the most surprising thing that you’ve learned that you didn’t know from before?

Sneh Patel: It’s really not that far from my high school, but it was not something that was taught to us at all. We weren’t taught about it. And I think, you know, in archaeology we think a lot about narrative building and what we choose to talk about the past. And even in my own research, you know, I worked on Indus culture archaeology, and I worked in a region that became incredibly important after the partition of India and Pakistan.

And it was very much about showing, you’ve seen those early reports talking about having the same materials that they had on the Indian side of the border as it in the Pakistani, right. But then as we learned more about the region, it had this distinctiveness, it had a regional culture, but you’re not gonna see that described in the same way nowadays, as you’re gonna see at the time, because the, the environment that they were doing this research, the aim of that research, sort of the greater geopolitical environment that it was in, was different.

Same thing nowadays, you know, especially because this site has a great importance not only to the Civil War, but also African American history within the city. And as you can imagine, that is something that is still understudied in the United States. And so I think that’s one of the things that really changes your ideas about your own backyard, not realizing that there are so many things there that are visible to you.

That are very apparent, but because the framework that you’re operating in isn’t to see them, you’re not gonna see them there. So think about how many unknown, probably significant sites of memory sites that are part of our heritage sites that are deserve preserving and deserve to be researched are just all around the city.

But because my education here or those who who formed my education decided that those weren’t important things for us to know. We’re not gonna see it.

Smiti: Gotcha. And speaking of importance, can you share a moment during your volunteer work where you saw someone have a moment of curiosity and really light up after learning something about the past that they likely didn’t know before?

Sneh Patel: This was one of my separate volunteer opportunity I had to do, but I was able to speak to kids who were learning about archaeology, and so this is where I thought about my own experience. I primarily worked in ceramics. And I was like, all right. I was like, how do I make, you know, bowls and pots and pan and interesting to a bunch of kids?

They, you know, they wanna dig a big hole. Like they don’t really wanna talk to you about these things. So, you know, just ask ’em. I was like, all right, “who used a, a vessel or a dish this morning?” They all raised their hand. I was like, “what’d you eat in?” And they were like, some of them made in bowls, some of them made in things.

And I was like, all right, “well now tell me, what did those tell you about you all?” Then you just see the wheels turning and I was like, “how many of you have something in your house that your parents take it out every once in a while and you know you’re gonna get in real trouble if you damage it.” And they all raise their, even to this day, there’s stuff that I’m like, oh, my mom’s gonna get mad if I break that thing that my grandmother gave me years ago.

And so they were able to get to that point, like thinking about what’s on the pots, what the shape, what we find into it, and how it could tell us so much about our lives in the past. And those aren’t necessarily the big fancy artifacts that you’re gonna see in the museum or maybe be the most exciting to kids.

But it was really great to kind of walk them through how these little things that I had brought to show them could tell us so much about people’s lives in the past. And, you know, we even pulled out a map and I told ’em, like, by the way, I was like, where do you think we found this? And I was like, oh, so they don’t know where that is.

And they, they were just amazed to see that people, thousands of years ago from Oman, you know, where you’ve done a lot of archaeology from India and from Pakistan, from Iran, from Iraq, we’re all talking to each other and we can find ceramics. They’re all together. And so it was good, great to see them think about those ideas and make guesses and you know, we, a little experiment a little bit, but like how would we actually answer those questions and then to show them what are some of the things that archaeologists do to be able to answer those questions.

Like I think it makes a little bit more fun than just being given the answer. Like giving them chance to have their imagination go, but also to have someone in the room who can tell them like, Hey. I work in that field, you are going through a great line of thinking, like that’s something that gives kids a boost of confidence and just maybe wants them explore that topic a little bit more.

Smiti: Oh, I hear you. And I loved hearing that the students that you were talking to really got excited about. Just the everyday life of people in the past and their present. I think sometimes with archaeology, people might associated with big fines, big architecture. While that’s really important too, that everyday aspect of life is where I feel like bigger connections are happening.

So speaking of connections, you tie in earth science a lot in your volunteering, and I was wondering if you can give us an example of that. I know you alluded to fossils before, but what about landscapes and the materials around us? What can they reveal about the past that you’ve communicated during your volunteer work?

Sneh Patel: One of the things that wasn’t maybe explicitly told me, but the symbolism was not lost. If you look at this fort, and again, like one of the largest inland union for its in Tennessee during the Civil War, when you look at some of the other locations for the Confederate side, they did not have to dig through those layers of limestone to build it.

And so when we talk about maybe even the struggle to end slavery like that, the point to get there, the, you know, there, there is the hard truth right there, right? They can all see it. Of what it took for those constricted laborers, those free blacks, to be able to build this fort to ensure not only their own freedom and the freedom of others, but you know, it’s two people who’s sitting here who have benefited from the civil rights work that eventually made it possible for our families to immigrate to this country.

You know, that having that, that solid rock there to be a reminder of what it is. It is probably something that really sticks out to me, but I think it’s also like being able to connect that to the landscape itself is really important unless, because those are issues that face us modern day times and it weirdly kind of parallels with some of the work that I do in government.

When you see a development project, do you see those huge stones, like all that’s being out of the ground, they all know exactly what we’re talking about. So it’s that great way to show how much. Every step of our past can help inform us about our future and maybe help us make better decisions about what we’re gonna be doing.

Smiti: Gotcha. And I mean, digging through rock is certainly a challenge, and I’m sure you’ve encountered challenges as you’ve been doing this type of volunteering and public work. And I’m wondering if you can walk us through an example of. Perhaps a challenge you’ve encountered or even an unexpected moment that made you rethink or I guess reflect on how you engage publicly about archaeology?

Sneh Patel: I think I would say with the two opportunities I’ve mentioned before, I mean the challenge is also making sure you’re communicating what you need to communicate and to the right audience. So particularly when you do have groups of different ages, like thinking about, how do I talk about this? More to connect to you because you can imagine.

Explaining a site to someone, maybe in a grade school or someone in high school versus an adult, or maybe even somebody who has an interest in archaeology or has collected fossils in the past is gonna be different. So you’re gonna have to sometimes on the fly, change your message. Still the same information, but the approach is gonna be different to be able to do that.

I mean, in other cases, I would say when people have approached me to ask about my input because they wanted to learn about something in the past. One of the things that always came up is, how much can I sell this for? And so that’s always a, it’s not a tricky situation, but it’s an uncomfortable situation ’cause we’re not going to monetize the past.

And I think the second issue has been is frankly, when those who do not have an archeological background, and I would just say don’t really understand the methods, but have a strong sense that they do actually know a lot about archaeology. Those have been really challenging moments because in some cases.

I don’t know if an argument based on evidence and based on the, the theories that we have and archeological evidence can really do much to counter what someone’s, I would say pseudoscience is now that someone coming to me as an expertise on what I know in archaeology, I think it’s a little bit different stance than in a volunteer opportunity.

I’m not about to get into a fight with you, but you always want to be able to make sure that you’re standing on the side of what is science, of what is good science. What is good archaeology there? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very tricky to deal with. Like how do you keep people interested in the past without letting them sort of take on narratives that are oftentimes harmful to some groups?

I think the things that we are equipped with to be good archaeologists do not always make us good to argue in those kinds of public spaces.

Smiti: That’s really challenging. And I’m curious, has there been an example of maybe discomfort that you were able to diffuse in your volunteer work that made you think, okay, this is maybe how I can approach this going forward?

Sneh Patel: The Ideas of creationism, you know, talking about a deep pass or not really. Things that go together and you hear ideas about creationism that come in from different people and you’re like, okay. Just say, that’s an interesting idea. Let’s see if there’s another hypothesis we can think of, or what can we actually test?

So you don’t necessarily degrade it because again, a lot of these are children, you don’t need to do that. But use it as an opportunity, I think to maybe not get so much to content, but more to our methods has been my approach. Like, you know, like how is I as an archaeologist or somebody who’s working in a different but tangential field.

Going to answer that question. So again, it’s, it’s thinking about the audience, thinking about your aim, and then also like what do you want the outcome to be? And in some cases, the outcome is, like for the example I mentioned earlier, the outcome was like, I don’t think this is a person I wanna continue to have a conversation with.

So I ended it. And so that, and that was the best thing for me. And they, I didn’t correct them. I didn’t get them to think differently. About their ideas, but now I’m removed from that conversation. That wasn’t gonna be a productive space for me. But in other cases, if it can be a productive space, I think that’s like, how can you open up a conversation?

Smiti: Thank you so much for elaborating on that. I know what you just mentioned is probably uncomfortable for folks who might volunteer in any setting, whether it has to do with archaeology the past, or something else. And you’ve alluded to the fact that representation is clearly important to you. And I’m wondering what has it meant to show up in these spaces and why do you think it’s important to have diverse people talking about the past.

Sneh Patel: I would say part of my interest in my commitment to this archaeology is there is something to be said to just see someone who maybe at least they don’t look like you. They look different from everybody else. And especially when we talk about those pathways, you know, I mean, when I remember talked about earlier that the same materials that people are allowed to have fossils were the same materials that I as a kid.

Was looking at and having my first experience. And that can mean a lot to a kid who maybe has an interest like, oh, you made it all the way to be an archaeologist, and these are the things you started looking at for those kids who are from the area. You also graduated from a public school here, and then you went on to study archaeology and you were able to travel the world.

And I think those things matter a lot, but I think you have to start letting people know about that possibility that you just gotta start with an interest, right? It doesn’t mean you’re not gonna need help or it’s not gonna be bumpy along the way, but it does make a difference when someone can say, I know where you came from.

I was there too. I got there. That path is there for you too.

Smiti: I love that and one thing I also appreciate is that we’ve been through grad school together. We’ve had our ups and downs with the field, but I think we’ve both found a way to reconnect with this field in a way that feels true to us and feels purposeful.

It seems like volunteering is that path for you, and I’m wondering if you can elaborate a bit on that.

Sneh Patel: It, it is very funny. When we were taught to teach in grad school. One of the things they told us is like, just remember, not everybody wants to get a PhD in this topic, so you gotta teach it like you’re teaching in a general audience.

And I kind of took that advice and went the opposite way. And I said, remember how you struggled with certain topics here? That’s how you’re gonna teach them. Because I think people always forget just because you achieve something and you’re good at it doesn’t mean a lot of us didn’t struggle in it. And I think that’s a good way to kind of.

It sounds like, you know, what did I find really confusing? What are some things that I kind of found boring about? Things that I had to learn that I’d need to teach you? Why is it’s so hard to identify rocks in the field when it’s so easy to memorize the definitions from the textbooks? Or maybe in that case, that was easier for me to do.

So you get to be able to flex that archaeology muscle. And at some point, you’re not gonna say, I used to be an archaeologist. You are still an archaeologist because you’re still showing an interest in the past. You’re still learning about material culture and you’re still trying to communicate that in the public in a way that matters.

You know, we always talk about archeological sites being a non-renewable resource. It’s like it’s destructive in nature that once we take that first dig or uncover things from a context, nobody else can have it. So that’s part of the reason why we do take so much care to do presentations at conferences to try to communicate the public about the ideas, to publish articles too.

So this is also fulfilling one of our ethical obligations of an archaeologist, and probably the most important is to preserve and educate people about the past. And as long as you’re doing that, and it doesn’t matter if, it’s not necessarily what’s paying the bills, if that’s what your current job title is, you are still an archaeologist and volunteering and finding ways to volunteer, whether it’s.

Doing exactly what you knew. If it’s maybe having to learn a few new skills, if it’s going to a space that you’re not incredibly comfortable with, or in my case, it’s gazing up your chance to be lazy on a Saturday. These are all ways that we can still live up to maybe what is the greatest obligation of an archaeologist, even if maybe other people don’t wanna call you, that you are still an archaeologist who were doing these things.

Smiti: Thank you for that. I think there’s a lot of archaeologists who do listen to this podcast that probably needed to hear that, but we also have people who aren’t archaeologists that listen to this podcast. And I’m curious, what do you hope those listeners or frankly all our listeners, take away about how volunteering can help us reconnect with the past in our own communities?

Sneh Patel: I think one of the great ways that it can help you reconnect is it just gets you out there. Like volunteering isn’t really something that you can easily do virtually, and you’re gonna be able to connect to people there, and then you’re gonna get to see like who actually shows up, like and what are their maybe interests, what brings them together, and how can you use your expertise to kind of talk to them.

I know for our volunteer project, like they’re not looking just for people who have a background in earth science or in social sciences or even paleontology. They’re just looking for people who want to learn about the past and want to teach others about it. ’cause this is always an opportunity to learn as well, as much as it is to teach.

If you’re ready to make a few mistakes, because we’re all gonna do it. I’m gonna share one of the ones that I made first. A bit of a mal apro prism. It’s not “Lamentations”, it’s “laminations”, and those are very different things when you’re pointing at strata. But it was something that I said in front of people with very big credentials and a crowd of people.

But hey, it happened. We all got a laugh and we got to make sure I correct it. Didn’t do it again. But those are some of the things. So you, you, you gotta remember, everyone wants you to succeed in that volunteer opportunity too. So if you’re nervous, if you’re not sure you can do it like, like of course you can, because showing up is probably the hardest thing.

Once you’ve done that, the rest is easy and you’ve got a great support group ready to help you. And it’s always wonderful when people thank you so much. It kind of feels a bit weird. They’re like, thank you so much for doing this. And you’re like, at some point you’re like, this is nothing. This is just something I do now.

It doesn’t feel like that big of a sacrifice anymore.

Smiti: One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation was that reconnecting with archaeology through volunteering is an opportunity to give back in a way that flexes the skills and training you’ve received while also learning new skills and connecting with the community that you live in.

Now, if you’d like to see some of Sneh’s other public facing work, she actually contributes to my YouTube channel as a consulting archaeologist. She co-produced a video all about surprising pottery from the ancient world. You’ll find that linked below in the show notes along with a link to a full transcript of this episode. And if you’d like to hear more from Sneh, she shares her top three tips for getting into volunteering in our Patreon exclusive video.

Our Patreon is free to join and gives you access to all of our extra content if you’d like to support the podcast monetarily, that’s always appreciated too. Thanks so much for listening and cultivating your curiosity with us.

We’ll see you soon.

Credits

Sneh Patel: Guest

Noor Hanania: Theme Music Creator

Laura Riveiro: Podcast Cover Art Creator

Smiti Nathan: Host, Video Editor

Patreon Supporters

Thank you to our paid Patreon members for supporting the creation of this episode:

Nancy Fulton, James D., Giancarlo Annese, Thomas Martin, Stuart A. Griffin, Tagg, Ann Brookens, Diana Madden, Cole Guinn, Seemingly Unrelated Podcast, Chris

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